jassan and -- hassan and khalid sheikh mohammed in guantÁnamo. today was a positive step that can hopefully redeem some of the luster this system has lost. >> the other option is to get a presidential pardon from president obama. what is being worked -- is that hopeless? >> that will be a cold day in hell for that to happen. obama just finished our security, he was the one who approved of this. same with all the other espionage act prosecutions of whistleblowers. i do not think he would have an epiphany or moment of truth that this is not a wise path in a democratic society that is supposed to be transparent. >> many -- manning did try to reach out to the "new york times." woul -- what does that tell you about journalism in general, the wikileaks angle and julian assange? >> it sounds like they blew him off. no one responded. given their coverage of the trial, it has been abysmal. they have not shown up during much of it. in terms of whether they would cover it, i do not know. i do not know if they would have covered his disclosure. i am not sure what they would have done on that.